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ms. lerner, what does off plan mean? >> on the advice of my counsel i respectfully exercise my fifth amendment right and decline to answer that question. >> ms. lerner, in february of 2014, president obama stated that there was not a smidgen of corruption in the i.r.s. targeting. ms. lerner, do you believe that there is not a smidgen of corruption in the i.r.s. targeting of conservatives? >> on the advice of my counsel i respectfully exercise my fifth amendment right and decline to answer that question. >> ms. lerner, on saturday, our committee's general counsel sent an email to your attorney saying, i understand that ms. lerner is willing to testify and she is requesting a one week delay in talking to the chairman -- excuse me. in talking to the chairman, wanted to make sure that was right. your lawyer in response to that question gave a one-word email response. yes. are you still seeking a one-week delay in order to testify? >> on the advice of my counsel i respectfully exercise my fifth amendment right and decline to
ms. lerner, what does off plan mean? >> on the advice of my counsel i respectfully exercise my fifth amendment right and decline to answer that question. >> ms. lerner, in february of 2014, president obama stated that there was not a smidgen of corruption in the i.r.s. targeting. ms. lerner, do you believe that there is not a smidgen of corruption in the i.r.s. targeting of conservatives? >> on the advice of my counsel i respectfully exercise my fifth amendment right and...
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ms. lerner, what does off plan mean? >> on the advice of my counsel i respectfully exercise my fifth amendment right and decline to answer that question. >> ms. lerner, in february of 2014, president obama stated that there was not a smidgen of corruption in the i.r.s. targeting. ms. lerner, do you believe that there is not a smidgen of corruption in the i.r.s. targeting of conservatives? >> on the advice of my counsel i respectfully exercise my fifth amendment right and decline to answer that question. >> ms. lerner, on saturday our committee's general counsel sent an email to your attorney saying, i understand that ms. lerner is willing to testify and she is requested a one week delay in talking to the chairman -- in talking to the chairman wanted to make sure that was right. your lawyer in response to that question gave a one word email response, yes. are you still seeking a one week delay in order to testify? >> on the advice of my counsel i respectfully exercise my fifth amendment right and decline to nswer that que
ms. lerner, what does off plan mean? >> on the advice of my counsel i respectfully exercise my fifth amendment right and decline to answer that question. >> ms. lerner, in february of 2014, president obama stated that there was not a smidgen of corruption in the i.r.s. targeting. ms. lerner, do you believe that there is not a smidgen of corruption in the i.r.s. targeting of conservatives? >> on the advice of my counsel i respectfully exercise my fifth amendment right and...
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without the testimony of ms. lerner. are there any questions? >> [inaudible] >> he was not directing questions for the witness and the committee had already adjourned. >> [inaudible] >> pursuant to the committee, we recessed only to determine whether or not we could get her to give testimony. once it was determined, there was no question before us. mr. cummings did not raise a point of privilege or a point of order and i did recognize him when he said he had a question. he went into an opening statement. opening statements had been completed. there were 40 members sitting there and we had already adjourned. therefore, i left. >> [inaudible] >> he was talking into a microphone. mr. cummings came to make a point of his objections to the process we have been going through. he was slandering me at the moment that the microphones did go off by claiming this had not been a real investigation. this has been a bipartisan investigation by multiple committees in which we had testimony in multiple hearings, including esther jordan subcommittees, in which i
without the testimony of ms. lerner. are there any questions? >> [inaudible] >> he was not directing questions for the witness and the committee had already adjourned. >> [inaudible] >> pursuant to the committee, we recessed only to determine whether or not we could get her to give testimony. once it was determined, there was no question before us. mr. cummings did not raise a point of privilege or a point of order and i did recognize him when he said he had a question....
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ms. lerner, what does off plan mean? >> on the advice of my counsel i respectfully exercise my fifth amendment right and decline to answer that question. >> ms. lerner, in february of 2014, president obama stated that there was not a smidgen of corruption in the i.r.s. targeting. ms. lerner, do you believe that there is not a smidgen of corruption in the i.r.s. targeting of conservatives? >> on the advice of my counsel i respectfully exercise my fifth amendment right and decline to answer that question. >> ms. lerner, on saturday, our committee's general counsel sent an email to your attorney saying, i understand that ms. lerner is willing to testify and she is requesting a one week delay in talking to the chairman -- excuse me. in talking to the chairman, wanted to make sure that was right. your lawyer in response to that question gave a one-word email response. yes. are you still seeking a one-week delay in order to testify? >> on the advice of my counsel i respectfully exercise my fifth amendment right and decline to
ms. lerner, what does off plan mean? >> on the advice of my counsel i respectfully exercise my fifth amendment right and decline to answer that question. >> ms. lerner, in february of 2014, president obama stated that there was not a smidgen of corruption in the i.r.s. targeting. ms. lerner, do you believe that there is not a smidgen of corruption in the i.r.s. targeting of conservatives? >> on the advice of my counsel i respectfully exercise my fifth amendment right and...
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continues to withhold some of ms. lerner's emails from the committee. documents and testimony show that ms. lerner is uniquely positioned to provide testimony that will help the committee better understand how and why the i.r.s. targeted conservative groups. at a business meeting on june 28, 2013, the committee approved a resolution rejecting ms. lerner's claim of fifth amendment privilege based on 2013. ver at the may 22, after that vote, having made the determination that ms. lerner waived her fifth amendment rights, the committee recalled her to appear today to answer questions pursuant to rules. the committee voted and found that ms. lerner waved her fifth amendment rights -- waived her fifth amendment rights by making a statement on may 22, 2013. and additionally, by affirming documents after making -- making a statement of fifth amendment rights. if ms. lerner continues to refuse to answer questions from our members while she's under subpoena, the committee may proceed to consider whether she should be held in contempt. since has been 9 1/2 months
continues to withhold some of ms. lerner's emails from the committee. documents and testimony show that ms. lerner is uniquely positioned to provide testimony that will help the committee better understand how and why the i.r.s. targeted conservative groups. at a business meeting on june 28, 2013, the committee approved a resolution rejecting ms. lerner's claim of fifth amendment privilege based on 2013. ver at the may 22, after that vote, having made the determination that ms. lerner waived...
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and like former irs commissioner, ms. lerner failed to inform congress about what she knew. i do have serious questions for ms. lerner and i am very disappointed that i will not be able to ask them today, but i do not support the republicans' conclusion that she waived her constitutional right nine months ago when she invoked a fifth amendment and do not believe a court would uphold that conclusion. now, chairman's gone, but i'd like to ask him a few procedural questions involving having a proper attorney. as i said a little bit earlier, her attorney can proffer that she loses nothing, nobody gains anything, but february 26th, ms. lerner's attorney sent a letter to the committee saying he met with the chairman staff last month. at that meeting, her attorney said, and i quote, the staff asked if i would provide a proffer of the testimony she would give and i agreed to do that, end of quote. but that did not happen. as i understand it, proffer does not grant immunity to the witness z not bind the committee in any way. instead, it allows the committee to obtain information to w
and like former irs commissioner, ms. lerner failed to inform congress about what she knew. i do have serious questions for ms. lerner and i am very disappointed that i will not be able to ask them today, but i do not support the republicans' conclusion that she waived her constitutional right nine months ago when she invoked a fifth amendment and do not believe a court would uphold that conclusion. now, chairman's gone, but i'd like to ask him a few procedural questions involving having a...
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i was not invited to the meeting last month with ms. lerner's attorney. but it seems to be the committee loses nothing by accepting this proffer and we may gain important information. the very question that the chairman just asked ms. lerner, those are the kinds of questions that could be answered in a proffer. so i wanted to ask the chairman whether the committee would schedule time this week for all committee members to hear the proffer from ms. lerner's attorney. with that, i yield back. [indiscernible] >> mr. ranking member, i find it a supreme irony that the chairman of this committee would unilaterally decide an american citizen has waived her fifth amendment rights while actually exercising his fifth amendment right not to answer your question on behalf of the minority of this committee. [indiscernible] >> thank you very much. >> in reaction to yesterday's events, the congressional black caucus is calling for congressman i had to be stripped of his chairmanship. marcia fudge also tried to introduce a resolution in the house to condemn representativ
i was not invited to the meeting last month with ms. lerner's attorney. but it seems to be the committee loses nothing by accepting this proffer and we may gain important information. the very question that the chairman just asked ms. lerner, those are the kinds of questions that could be answered in a proffer. so i wanted to ask the chairman whether the committee would schedule time this week for all committee members to hear the proffer from ms. lerner's attorney. with that, i yield back....
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chairman issathat had been negotiating with the attorney for ms. lerner. he didn't include us in that process, by the way. apparently, there was some efforts to -- the attorney was agreeing to do a proffer. for some reason, chairman issa shut that down. he did not accept of a proffer. simply efforts were to get to the point of getting a proffer from the attorney. the attorney would tell us what if she had said answered the question. again, he shut me down because he did not want to hear what i was saying or what he thought i would say. that is un-american. i'm sorry. yes. that thentioned republicans are saying that he is abusing his executive authority. >> here is what happens. we get these worked over bills and i sometimes think that they write them in a basement room down here. no committee process whatever. often, we are called in for an emergency meeting to do something. as i said again, it is simply part of what the message is that they are turned to get to their base. but while they are doing that, and they could be doing that on their own time, the
chairman issathat had been negotiating with the attorney for ms. lerner. he didn't include us in that process, by the way. apparently, there was some efforts to -- the attorney was agreeing to do a proffer. for some reason, chairman issa shut that down. he did not accept of a proffer. simply efforts were to get to the point of getting a proffer from the attorney. the attorney would tell us what if she had said answered the question. again, he shut me down because he did not want to hear what i...
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and ms. lerner stayed there and listened. you and connolly were shouting to the room because the microphones had been disabled. this went on for five minutes. after issa walked out of the hearing room, he went to reporters to say you were, quote, slandering him. issa also proclaimed he was moving forward with the investigation. congressman cummings, this looks like you were there as a studio audience to watch this opera go on where the official took the fifth amendment, everybody knew her answer would be the same and then he goes through the process of asking ten questions for the cameras. not for the person in the booth there in the witness chair. >> yeah. the ten questions, chris, i think were basically he wanted to i guess embarrass her. but the key here, chris, is that over the past nine months, this investigation has been conducted. but several months ago russell george, the ig appointed by a republican administration said that there was no white house involvement with regard to these irs so-called targeting. nor was the
and ms. lerner stayed there and listened. you and connolly were shouting to the room because the microphones had been disabled. this went on for five minutes. after issa walked out of the hearing room, he went to reporters to say you were, quote, slandering him. issa also proclaimed he was moving forward with the investigation. congressman cummings, this looks like you were there as a studio audience to watch this opera go on where the official took the fifth amendment, everybody knew her...
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and what they say to me as a lawyer is we need to hear from ms. lerner. we need to have a context on these e-mails, a full explanation on why she is calling the matter dangerous, and why. here is another matter she is saying about the targeting. we need to be cautious so it is not a per se political project in january of 2012. we need lois lerner to testify, cleta, so far she has said no, but you have news on who she is talking to, tell us sn. >> well, we learned today in a meeting, congressman issa's committee, according to an attorney during the past six months lois lerner has met privately with the investigators from the department of justice and apparently has not pleaded the fifth in those investigation hearings or committee conversations. and yet she will not speak to the american people. she wouldn't speak to their elected representative in congress but she will speak privately to the justice department. what does that tell us about the justice department investigation? she is more afraid of congress than she is the people who could indict her? >>
and what they say to me as a lawyer is we need to hear from ms. lerner. we need to have a context on these e-mails, a full explanation on why she is calling the matter dangerous, and why. here is another matter she is saying about the targeting. we need to be cautious so it is not a per se political project in january of 2012. we need lois lerner to testify, cleta, so far she has said no, but you have news on who she is talking to, tell us sn. >> well, we learned today in a meeting,...
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. >> ms. lerner, you are released. >> first, i would like to make some brief points. for the past year, the central republican accusation in this investigation -- >> we are adjourned. close it down. [indiscernible] >> before i -- [indiscernible] >> thank you. [indiscernible] >> if you will sit down and allow me to ask question, i am a member of the congress of the united states of america. i am tired of this! >> well -- >> we have members here who represent 700,000 people. you cannot have a one-sided investigation. >> hear, hear. >> the hearing is adjourned. >> i do have a question. >> i gave you [indiscernible] he is taking the fifth, elijah. [indiscernible] republicanss a staffing choice in his effort to [indiscernible] although he provided a copy of [indiscernible] he refused to provided to members of the kennedy. -- of the committee. we have employees who have said the same thing about the white house was not directed [indiscernible] at the time it was occurring. [indiscernible] any political motivation. inspector general told us the same thing. he found no eviden
. >> ms. lerner, you are released. >> first, i would like to make some brief points. for the past year, the central republican accusation in this investigation -- >> we are adjourned. close it down. [indiscernible] >> before i -- [indiscernible] >> thank you. [indiscernible] >> if you will sit down and allow me to ask question, i am a member of the congress of the united states of america. i am tired of this! >> well -- >> we have members here who...
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ift no expectation that ms. lerner will cooperate with this committee and therefore we stand adjourned. >> mr. chairman, i have a statement .i have a procedural question, mr. chairman. mr. chairman, i have a procedural question. mr. chairman, you can not run a committee like this. you just cannot do this. this is -- we're better than as a country. we're better than that as a committee. i have asked for a few minutes to ask a procedural -- now you're turning me off. >> in that unprecedented moment when darrell issa adjourned a hearing without allowing any other member of the committee to speak, he not only violated committee norms and protocols, he committed with one house representative parliament expert has called a fatal error. joining me now is attorney stan bran who has served as general counsel to the u.s. house of representatives under the speakership of democrat tip o'neill and luke russert who broke this story. stan brand, you have advised the committee, elijah cummings and the house of representatives t
ift no expectation that ms. lerner will cooperate with this committee and therefore we stand adjourned. >> mr. chairman, i have a statement .i have a procedural question, mr. chairman. mr. chairman, i have a procedural question. mr. chairman, you can not run a committee like this. you just cannot do this. this is -- we're better than as a country. we're better than that as a committee. i have asked for a few minutes to ask a procedural -- now you're turning me off. >> in that...
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his staff had asked lerner -- ms. lerner's lawyer if he would proffer what she would say. if normally if you ask that, you give the witness immunity. then we all could find out what there is to be known from ms. lerner. so he said, yes, i would be willing to do a proffer to say what she would say. what chairman issa was trying to do today was keep us from revealing that we could have learned exactly what she would have said. and he didn't want ranking member cummings to get that out and i'm putting it out here right now. that's what he was hiding. >> so he really didn't want that to come out. so this display was in many ways covering something which is what congressman cummings referred to when he said what are you hiding. >> precisely. that has to be explained. what did he mean? when his staff says would you as a lawyer, an acceptable procedure, a proffer tell us what you would have said and he says yes, then she's -- he's there sitting beside her. he should have asked the lawyer what she would have said. then the committee -- a committee to investigate -- would have had
his staff had asked lerner -- ms. lerner's lawyer if he would proffer what she would say. if normally if you ask that, you give the witness immunity. then we all could find out what there is to be known from ms. lerner. so he said, yes, i would be willing to do a proffer to say what she would say. what chairman issa was trying to do today was keep us from revealing that we could have learned exactly what she would have said. and he didn't want ranking member cummings to get that out and i'm...
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>> they are so far on ms. lerner and we think this is significant. what we learned from the earlier documents is that the irs was not only targeting conservative groups, applying for tax exempt status, but they are monitoring, surveying existing conservative groups based on their political beliefs. we think this troves of emails will help us pinpoint at what level the wrongdoing occurred and the deception. this is a pretty significant change. >> maybe they are going to cherry pick and not give you the ones that are the smoking gun emails. are you confident you are going to get them all? >> well, we think this is helpful. but we are going to keep digging. the truth of the matter is we want to get to the bottom of the truth. we want to hold them accountable for those who did wrongdoing and then most importantly. >> okay. but you are not sure. >> happen again. >> you are not sure what you are going to get. you are going to have to be forensic detectives and piece this together. >> yes, sir. >> why are two two committees. oversight committee issa grilled
>> they are so far on ms. lerner and we think this is significant. what we learned from the earlier documents is that the irs was not only targeting conservative groups, applying for tax exempt status, but they are monitoring, surveying existing conservative groups based on their political beliefs. we think this troves of emails will help us pinpoint at what level the wrongdoing occurred and the deception. this is a pretty significant change. >> maybe they are going to cherry pick...
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i have listened to you for the last 20 minutes. >> ms. lerner, you're free to leave. >> but first, i would like to make some brief points. for the past year -- >> we're adjourned. >> close it down. >> against the white house. >> before our o-- single document. >> when i -- if you will sit down and allow me to ask a question, i am a member of the congress of the united states of america. i am tired of this. >> i gave you the opportunity to ask the question. >> i do have a question. >> i gave you the opportunity to proceed. >> hot in there today, right? republican south carolina congressman trey goudy was a member of that committee, and joins me now, good to have you. >> yes, ma'am, thank you. >> i want to get to that scene we just watched. but first, we were covering that in our news room. we didn't know whether she was actually going to testify. it was right up to the wire. why did you folks believe she might actually come in there and answer your questions? >> well, because her attorney told us she would. we believed all through -- >> wh
i have listened to you for the last 20 minutes. >> ms. lerner, you're free to leave. >> but first, i would like to make some brief points. for the past year -- >> we're adjourned. >> close it down. >> against the white house. >> before our o-- single document. >> when i -- if you will sit down and allow me to ask a question, i am a member of the congress of the united states of america. i am tired of this. >> i gave you the opportunity to ask the...
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ms. learner, why would you say tea party cases were very dangerous? >> on the advice of my counsel, i respectfully exercise my fifth amendment right and decline to answer the question. >> ms. learner in september 2010 you e-mailed your subordinates about initiating a parenthesis c-4 project and wrote,que need to be cautious so it isn't a per se political project. why were you worried about this being perceived as a political project? >> on the advice of my counsel, i respectfully exercise my fifth amendment right and decline to answer that question. >> you will see more of learner's controversial e-mails in just a minute. but now, the clash of the titan. moments after she pleaded the right, issa cutting off the microphone as cummings tries to speak. >> ms. learner, you are released. but first, i would like to use my time to make some brief points. for the past year, the central republican accusation in this investigation. >> we're adjourned. close it down. >> before our -- >> thank you. >
ms. learner, why would you say tea party cases were very dangerous? >> on the advice of my counsel, i respectfully exercise my fifth amendment right and decline to answer the question. >> ms. learner in september 2010 you e-mailed your subordinates about initiating a parenthesis c-4 project and wrote,que need to be cautious so it isn't a per se political project. why were you worried about this being perceived as a political project? >> on the advice of my counsel, i...
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oh what a relief it is >>> ms. lerner, why would you say tea party cases were very dangerous. >> on the advice of my counsel, i respectfully enter my fifth amentdment right and refusion to answer the question. >> we're back once again with the panel. before we get into the infamous dustup between the chairman. let's get to this. it's been almost a year since the treasury report confirmed the targeting by the irs. are you surprised that we still know so little about what really happened? >> no. because the congressional investigations are just starting, and i don't think the one in the justice department ever will start. i mean, he's appointed an employee of his who's also a donor of his, to investigate hem. and before the thing starts, he says, by the way, i already know the outcome. there's not a smidgeon of a scanle here. that's a sham. there takes a long time to unwind this when there's stone walling. >> you say congress is just starting. they've had a year. >> they've had a year to try extract the relevant docu
oh what a relief it is >>> ms. lerner, why would you say tea party cases were very dangerous. >> on the advice of my counsel, i respectfully enter my fifth amentdment right and refusion to answer the question. >> we're back once again with the panel. before we get into the infamous dustup between the chairman. let's get to this. it's been almost a year since the treasury report confirmed the targeting by the irs. are you surprised that we still know so little about what...
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. >>> i have no expectation that ms. lerner will cooperate with this committee -- >> mr. chairman. mr. chairman, i have a statement. i have a procedural question, mr. chairman. mr. chairman, you cannot run a committee like this. you just cannot do this. this is -- we're better than that as a country. we're better than that as a committee. >> a question -- if you will sit down and allow me to ask a question, i am a member of a congress of the united states of america! i am tired of this! >> and that was democratic congressman elijah cummings after an oversight committee chairman darrell issa cut off the microphones yesterday. he said he still hasn't spoken to chairman issa about the incident at a hearing where former irs official lois lerner pleaded the fifth again. congressman gary connelly of virginia was there. thank you so much for joining me, congressman. what was your -- >> thank you, kristen. >> thank you. what was your reaction to that, and does that type of exchange make it harder to conduct business in washington? >> you know, this may seem like inside baseball to a lot of
. >>> i have no expectation that ms. lerner will cooperate with this committee -- >> mr. chairman. mr. chairman, i have a statement. i have a procedural question, mr. chairman. mr. chairman, you cannot run a committee like this. you just cannot do this. this is -- we're better than that as a country. we're better than that as a committee. >> a question -- if you will sit down and allow me to ask a question, i am a member of a congress of the united states of america! i am...
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i have one procedural -- >> ms. lerner, you're released. you may -- >> first, i would like to use my time to make some brief points. for the past year, the central republican accusation in this investigation -- >> we're adjourned. close it down. >> hear, hear. >> i'm not old enough to remember joe mccarthy's hearing, so i can tell you, i have never seen such shameful conduct by a committee chairman. but after her chat with darrell issa tonight, this is what greta van susteren's conclusion was. >> shame on president obama for not doing the right thing, picking up the phone and addressing his attorney general to aggressively and fairly aggressive. >> and shame on greta and every one at fox news who have never bothered to read the law on 501c-4 organizations that darrell issa claims he is investigating. joining me now, congressman jeremy connelly of virginia who was in the room today. i don't have to ask you if you've ever seen that before. i checked with the senate historian today. they knew of no such instance of this ever happening. a chair
i have one procedural -- >> ms. lerner, you're released. you may -- >> first, i would like to use my time to make some brief points. for the past year, the central republican accusation in this investigation -- >> we're adjourned. close it down. >> hear, hear. >> i'm not old enough to remember joe mccarthy's hearing, so i can tell you, i have never seen such shameful conduct by a committee chairman. but after her chat with darrell issa tonight, this is what greta...
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i've listened to you for the last 15 to 20 minutes. >> ms. lerner, you're released. >> you can see the picture there. how common is that where you see the chairman sweeping his finger across the throat and cutting off the microphone. and did he deserve the reprimand? >> i have never seen that, and yes, he did deserve the reprimand. and yes, he did apologize. to george's point, this is a good time for congress to investigate this. yes, there are a lot of issues out there about what the irs did or didn't do to conservatives and maybe to others as well. but elijah cummings is a trainered prosecutor. he had his right, the 15 minutes or whatever the time was under house rules to ask his questions. and i should have been able to ask them. hopefully now calmer head also prevail and they will showcase what the house can do. the house has had a history, not recently, of investigating major issues in this country, and let's just hope that sanity can prevail. >> i'm not sure that we hope that san its prevails. the obama administration has provided the c
i've listened to you for the last 15 to 20 minutes. >> ms. lerner, you're released. >> you can see the picture there. how common is that where you see the chairman sweeping his finger across the throat and cutting off the microphone. and did he deserve the reprimand? >> i have never seen that, and yes, he did deserve the reprimand. and yes, he did apologize. to george's point, this is a good time for congress to investigate this. yes, there are a lot of issues out there about...
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lerner's rights. so he was really supposed to be answering my contentions, but instead he went off on some tangent that is just made no sense to me. >> now, when the house democrats stood yesterday on the floor and demanded an apology in front of the house, he had already called you and talked privately. but you have said, and i think admirably bigger than you, let us remember, congressman, chairman issa has cut off mics on democratic lawmakers before. >> that's right. >> watch what he did to congressman john tierney during a hearing about obamacare in december. watch this. >> now, if you want to ask a new question, go in a different direction. >> the gentleman is not in order, please. >> there is the chair. and i think we have an issue here -- and now you're going to shut the microphone off? >> yeah. >> and he cut the mic off. congressman tierney said now you're going cut the microphone off on me. he said yeah. so this seems to be a pattern that he just operates in his own kind of way like if i don't
lerner's rights. so he was really supposed to be answering my contentions, but instead he went off on some tangent that is just made no sense to me. >> now, when the house democrats stood yesterday on the floor and demanded an apology in front of the house, he had already called you and talked privately. but you have said, and i think admirably bigger than you, let us remember, congressman, chairman issa has cut off mics on democratic lawmakers before. >> that's right. >>...
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lerner or cincinnati or anybody were doing here. aren't we jumping the gun? you are innocent until proven guilty. >> but there's a lot more evidence coming out. the timing of the, the 2012, the republicans were designated. it was just about that time that the irs targeted coinciden coincidence? >> exactly. i'd love to be able to live in a world like rick unger does. you cover your eyes and your ears and accept the narrative that's out there without getting a special prosecutor to tell us what happened about the white house's potential government. are a government by the people and for the people. this isn't by the government for the government. the perspective, what is going on with the dna of our government where we're allowing the irs to behave like this without any checks and balance, without a special prosecutor to get to the bottom of the shiefling of political dissent. >> bruce, the fact is that the white house and their mignons have been throwing one office and a group of people working in cincinnati under the bus when, in fact, it went much higher tha
lerner or cincinnati or anybody were doing here. aren't we jumping the gun? you are innocent until proven guilty. >> but there's a lot more evidence coming out. the timing of the, the 2012, the republicans were designated. it was just about that time that the irs targeted coinciden coincidence? >> exactly. i'd love to be able to live in a world like rick unger does. you cover your eyes and your ears and accept the narrative that's out there without getting a special prosecutor to...
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at this point, roads lead to ms. lerner. the witness who took the fifth. she becomes one of the key characters at this point. had she been willing to explain those e-mails, which were provided through separate subpoenas, then we could have perhaps brought this to a close. without that, we made dead end with ms. lerner. >> the only way we may find out for sure if lois lerner is protected by the amendment is if she's ever held in contempt of congress and it goes to a judge who would make the determination. so far no, decision has been made on whether the republican-controlled committee will try to take that issue to that level. joe johns, cnn, washington. >> thanks to joe johns. in the next hour, elijah cummings will hold a news conference. cnn will monitor his remarks beginning at 10:30 and bring you news if he makes any. >>> still to come, the u.s. now imposing sanctions on some russian and ukrainian officials. but how does that help de-escalade-eska l de-escalate this crisis? [ male announcer ] this is karen and jeremiah. they don't know it yet, but they'
at this point, roads lead to ms. lerner. the witness who took the fifth. she becomes one of the key characters at this point. had she been willing to explain those e-mails, which were provided through separate subpoenas, then we could have perhaps brought this to a close. without that, we made dead end with ms. lerner. >> the only way we may find out for sure if lois lerner is protected by the amendment is if she's ever held in contempt of congress and it goes to a judge who would make...
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sir, i have one procedural -- >> ms. lerner, you're released. >> but first i would like to use my time to make some brief points. for the past year, the central republican accusation -- in this investigation -- >> we're adjourned. close it down. >> -- single documents. >> thank you. >> i am a member of the congress of the united states of america. i am tired of this. >> well -- >> we have members over here each who represent 700,000 people. you cannot just have a one-sided investigation. there is absolutely something wrong with that, and it is absolutely unamerican. >> hear, hear. >>> both members of congress later made their way to working microphones and journalists to explain what happened in that hearing room and why. >>> there was a surreal event this week in daytona beach, florida, where onlookers couldn't believe what was unfolding in the water in front of them. and once they determined it wasn't a stunt of any kind, once they determined a family was in danger and a minivan driving into the surf, complete stranger
sir, i have one procedural -- >> ms. lerner, you're released. >> but first i would like to use my time to make some brief points. for the past year, the central republican accusation -- in this investigation -- >> we're adjourned. close it down. >> -- single documents. >> thank you. >> i am a member of the congress of the united states of america. i am tired of this. >> well -- >> we have members over here each who represent 700,000 people. you...
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"ms. lerner...you're released... " "but first i would like to take my time to make some brief points. for the past year the central republican accusation in this investigation... " "we're adjourned. close it down" the irs was accused last year, of targeting tea party conservatives in search of tax exempt status. democrats contend progressive groups were also targeted. car companies are hording cash like crazy. counsulting firm e- y reports-- the world's top 10 automakers are sitting on $221 billion in cash. reasons range from heavy spending still to come on research and development. also-- car makers are not favored by banks. by having a stash of cash. car companies have money to cover upcoming expenses. general motors ceo mary barra makes a bold move. barra will personally direct a recall of 1.3 million vehicles that have a potential flaw on ignition switches. yesterday... the national highway traffic safety administration ordered information from g-m about why it took so long to issue a
"ms. lerner...you're released... " "but first i would like to take my time to make some brief points. for the past year the central republican accusation in this investigation... " "we're adjourned. close it down" the irs was accused last year, of targeting tea party conservatives in search of tax exempt status. democrats contend progressive groups were also targeted. car companies are hording cash like crazy. counsulting firm e- y reports-- the world's top 10...
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refused to testify for a second time. >> ms. lerner you're released. but first i would like to use my time to make some brief points. for the past year, the central accusation -- >> close it down. >> before our -- a single document. >> if you'll sit down and allow me to ask the questions. i'm a member of congress of the united states of america. i'm tired of this. we have members over here. each who represent 700,000 people. you can't have one-sided investigation. that is absolutely -- there's absolutely something wrong with that. and un-american. >> the hearing is adjourned. >> i do have a question. >> wow. joining us now the cohoff ost of the five on the fox news channel. good to have you with us. >> good to be here. >> that was an amazing display. lois lerner after being told that she would testify, again, taking the fifth. >> that was an amazing display and distraction. i actually regret playing that footage on the five earlier. he said it's un-american, what's un-american is what happened at the irs and the distraction that
refused to testify for a second time. >> ms. lerner you're released. but first i would like to use my time to make some brief points. for the past year, the central accusation -- >> close it down. >> before our -- a single document. >> if you'll sit down and allow me to ask the questions. i'm a member of congress of the united states of america. i'm tired of this. we have members over here. each who represent 700,000 people. you can't have one-sided investigation. that...
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lerner's attorney, has confirmed in writing ms. lerner is willing to testify and she has requested a one week delay for the public hearing. ms. lerner may make her request on wednesday when she appears at that hearing. bill taylor making his own statement saying she will plead the fifth. >> pizza deliveries at oscar's biggest night. the oscars go to the favorite. >> and the oscar goes to... "12 years a slave." >> the drama about slavery won the highest honor of the night. best picture of the year, 12 years a slave, making history as the first movie from a black director to earn that coveted support. other big winnerrers cate blanchett won for her role in blue jasmine and lupita nyong'o won for her role in 12 years a slave. but the best speeches may have gone to matthew mcconaughey for dallas buyers club. listen to this. >> first of all i want to thank god because that is who i look up to. he has graced my life with opportunities that i know are not of my hand or any other human hand. >> gravity pulled in the most oscars with seven
lerner's attorney, has confirmed in writing ms. lerner is willing to testify and she has requested a one week delay for the public hearing. ms. lerner may make her request on wednesday when she appears at that hearing. bill taylor making his own statement saying she will plead the fifth. >> pizza deliveries at oscar's biggest night. the oscars go to the favorite. >> and the oscar goes to... "12 years a slave." >> the drama about slavery won the highest honor of the...
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>> well, the republicans, obviously, are trying to leave the public with the impression that ms. lerner is trying to hide something or trying to protect someone or trying to shield herself from being guilty, being -- exposing herself as guilty be not of a crime, then of misbehavior with respect to the core of this controversy which just to say it in a sentence is what ms. lerner has said in the past when she was not on the witness stand was that at the irs there was a time period where they were evaluating groups with conservative-sounding names, groups with tea party in their name for tax-exempt status more strenuously than any other groups. that's what the republicans are trying to get at. but as you showed in the clip right before the break, they weren't really able to make that the story yesterday. jon: so then we get into this disagreement between darrell issa who runs the committee and the ranking minority member on the committee, elijiah cummings. they had that, well, that a verbal blow-up, cummings saying he, you know, is tired of this kind of thing. but he has been accus
>> well, the republicans, obviously, are trying to leave the public with the impression that ms. lerner is trying to hide something or trying to protect someone or trying to shield herself from being guilty, being -- exposing herself as guilty be not of a crime, then of misbehavior with respect to the core of this controversy which just to say it in a sentence is what ms. lerner has said in the past when she was not on the witness stand was that at the irs there was a time period where...
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. >> ms. lerner you are released. >> i am a member of the congress of the united states of america. i am tired of this. >> well -- >> we have members over here each of represent 700,000 people. can you not just have a one-sided investigation. there is absolutely something wrong with that and it is absolutely unamerican. >> the committee chairman eventually left the room but elijah cummings stayed and kept talking. >>> one of the coldest snowiest winters in memory has put a cloud over the fishing industry in the graicts. ash-har quraishi has the story. >> for more than 50 years, the family has been processing fish caught on the midwest and the great lakes. >> we are handling upwards of a million pounds of fish a week. >> but this year is unusual. for mike schaeffer, the costs are mounting. >> it's going to have probably a million dollar impact on the company. >> courtesy of the polar vortex, threatening a $1 billion a year industry. ice cover blanketing the great lakes reached 80%. >> the ice season got started early. of course we had that arctic vortex in the end of december and ear
. >> ms. lerner you are released. >> i am a member of the congress of the united states of america. i am tired of this. >> well -- >> we have members over here each of represent 700,000 people. can you not just have a one-sided investigation. there is absolutely something wrong with that and it is absolutely unamerican. >> the committee chairman eventually left the room but elijah cummings stayed and kept talking. >>> one of the coldest snowiest winters in...
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you have immunity, ms. lerner, we'll grant you immunity. we want to hear what you have to say. i think when you heard elijah cummings, he was hiding -- >> let me educate you on the facts because lois lerner in may of 2013 sent an apology to the american people blaming the tea party targeting on a line of people in cincinnati and described steps that she took to combat the misconduct. and then it goes on to say the tea party groups received letters from the cincinnati office, not just from cincinnati but from coast to coast. we know that tea party groups were targeted. now, where is elijah cumming's anger and frustration and indignation against the groups who had every right to do what they were doing? where is your indignation, juan? >> where is your sense of fair play? >> where did she apologize? >> that would say, oh, yeah, we were denied our tax exempt status, there is not one. >> and out of the 44 clients that jay seculow has, how many of those people do you think were even talked to about what happened to them? >> they say they haven't been talked to -- >> oh, how do you d
you have immunity, ms. lerner, we'll grant you immunity. we want to hear what you have to say. i think when you heard elijah cummings, he was hiding -- >> let me educate you on the facts because lois lerner in may of 2013 sent an apology to the american people blaming the tea party targeting on a line of people in cincinnati and described steps that she took to combat the misconduct. and then it goes on to say the tea party groups received letters from the cincinnati office, not just from...
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lerner and did not include us in that process by the way. apparently there were some attorney was the agreeing to do a proffer and for some reason the chairman shut that down and did not accept it. what my efforts were was to simply getting to the point of getting a proffer from the attorney so the attorney would tell us what he would have said or what she would have said if she would have answer the questions, that's all. he shut me down because he did not want to hear what i was saying or what he thought i would say. it's un-american. i'm sorry. slaughter, youve mentioned they're saying the president is a viewing his executive authority. how are you planning to respond? >> at the rules committee, we get these worked over bills and sometimes i think they find them in a basement room somewhere down here. an awful lot of us had no committee process whatsoever and often we are called in before an emergency meeting to do something. it is simply part of what the message they're are trying to get to the base. while they are doing that, they can d
lerner and did not include us in that process by the way. apparently there were some attorney was the agreeing to do a proffer and for some reason the chairman shut that down and did not accept it. what my efforts were was to simply getting to the point of getting a proffer from the attorney so the attorney would tell us what he would have said or what she would have said if she would have answer the questions, that's all. he shut me down because he did not want to hear what i was saying or...
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. >> i have no expectation that ms. lerner will cooperate with this committee and, therefore, we will adjourn. >> chairman, i have a statement. >> we're adjourned, close it down. >> collusion of -- [ inaudible ] >> before our committee -- >> thank you. [ inaudible ] >> effectively and lying about enduring the election year. >> mr. cummings. >> he continued -- >> you heard your question. >> if you will sit down and allow me to ask a question. i am a member of the congress of the united states of america. i am tired of this. >> well -- >> we have members over here, each who represent 700,000 people. you cannot just have a one sided investigation. there is absolutely something wrong with that, and it is absolutely unamerican. >> here, here. >> joining me now, matt cartwright from pennsylvania. he was there today, in fact it was his voice you heard at the end of that clip saying, here, here. >> have you ever seen a scene like that in congress? >> well, chris, i guess we're done with the sheer lunacy part of your show, we're
. >> i have no expectation that ms. lerner will cooperate with this committee and, therefore, we will adjourn. >> chairman, i have a statement. >> we're adjourned, close it down. >> collusion of -- [ inaudible ] >> before our committee -- >> thank you. [ inaudible ] >> effectively and lying about enduring the election year. >> mr. cummings. >> he continued -- >> you heard your question. >> if you will sit down and allow me to ask...
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. >> i have no expectation that ms. lerner will cooperate with this committee, and, therefore, we stand adjourned. >> mr. chairman. mr. chairman. i have a statement. i have a procedural question, mr. chairman. i am a member of the congress of the united states of america. i am tired of this. >> come november, we will celebrate an even greater victory than we're celebrating tonight. >> i say no way to bigger government in the state of texas. >> when you don't stand and draw a clear distinction, when you don't stand for principle, democrats celebrate. >> we cannot ignore that the flawed foreign policy of the last few years has brought us to this stage. >> let's come out of this conference resolved to win elections again. >> joining me now, nbc news senior political editor mark murray:i just got this note the house ways and means committee chairman said they'll be providing lois lerner's documents and e-mails related to the irs targeting of conservative groups. this just in here. what does that mean? >> it means republican
. >> i have no expectation that ms. lerner will cooperate with this committee, and, therefore, we stand adjourned. >> mr. chairman. mr. chairman. i have a statement. i have a procedural question, mr. chairman. i am a member of the congress of the united states of america. i am tired of this. >> come november, we will celebrate an even greater victory than we're celebrating tonight. >> i say no way to bigger government in the state of texas. >> when you don't stand...
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i have one -- >> ms. lerner, you are released. >> first, i would like to use my time to make brief points. for the past year, the central republican accusation in this investigation -- >> we're adjourned. close it down. >> before our -- >> thank you. >> all right, everybody behaving like adults as usual on the hill. a frustrated congressman cummings continued to speak even after his mike was cut off. take a listen. >> if you will sit down and allow me to ask a question, i am a member of the congress of the united states of america. i am tired of this. we have members over here, each who represent 700,000 people. you cannot just have a one-sided investigation. there is absolutely something wrong with that and it's absolutely un-american. >> you know, just civil, efficient business as usual. issa gave his rationale to reporters outside the hearing room shortly after that. >> after she had established she was pleading the fifth, you still asked several questions yet you didn't give your democratic colleague
i have one -- >> ms. lerner, you are released. >> first, i would like to use my time to make brief points. for the past year, the central republican accusation in this investigation -- >> we're adjourned. close it down. >> before our -- >> thank you. >> all right, everybody behaving like adults as usual on the hill. a frustrated congressman cummings continued to speak even after his mike was cut off. take a listen. >> if you will sit down and allow me...
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i have one procedural -- >> ms. lerner, you're released. >> first, i would like to use my time to make some brief points. for the past year, the central republican accusation -- >> we're adjourned. close it down. [ inaudible ] before a single document -- >> thank you. >> a frustrated congressman cummings continued to speak, even after his mic was turned off. take a look. >> if you will sit down and allow me to ask a question, i am a member of the congress of the united states of america. i am tired of this! we have members over here, each who represent 700,000 people. you cannot just have a one-sided investigation. there is absolutely something wrong with that, and it's absolutely un-american. >> nbc's luke russert is on capitol hill. we see a lot, luke, in that, but i have to tell you, this one is pretty unforgettable. >> indeed, tamron. elijah cummings, who you saw there so outraged actually called what happened to him, quote, un-american. look, the house of representatives, the way it's set up, the power structur
i have one procedural -- >> ms. lerner, you're released. >> first, i would like to use my time to make some brief points. for the past year, the central republican accusation -- >> we're adjourned. close it down. [ inaudible ] before a single document -- >> thank you. >> a frustrated congressman cummings continued to speak, even after his mic was turned off. take a look. >> if you will sit down and allow me to ask a question, i am a member of the congress of...
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. >> i have no expectation that ms. lerner will cooperate with this committee and therefore we are adjourned. >> chairman, chairman, i have a statement. i have a procedural question, mr. chairman. mr. chairman, i have a procedural question. mr. chairman, you cannot run a committee like this. you just cannot do this. this is -- we're better than that as a country. we're better than that as a committee. i have asked for a few minutes to ask a procedural -- now you're turning me off. >> we have adjourned. >> tonight a strong direct message to chairman issa. they won't stand for it. joining me now, congresswoman jackie speier, a member of the house oversight committee who just got off the house floor. thanks for being here, congresswoman. >> my pleasure, reverend. >> a remarkable scene moments ago. how do you think chairman issa will respond? >> well, if he is smart, he is going to respond by apologizing on the floor, because this privileged resolution can be brought up over and over and over again. and i don't know how muc
. >> i have no expectation that ms. lerner will cooperate with this committee and therefore we are adjourned. >> chairman, chairman, i have a statement. i have a procedural question, mr. chairman. mr. chairman, i have a procedural question. mr. chairman, you cannot run a committee like this. you just cannot do this. this is -- we're better than that as a country. we're better than that as a committee. i have asked for a few minutes to ask a procedural -- now you're turning me off....
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ms. lerner, why did you want to personally order that they pull crossroads g.p.s., karl rove's organization's application? >> on the advice of my counsel, i respectfully exercise my fifth amendment right and decline to answer that question. >> and karl rove joins us. nice to see you, karl. >> great to see you, greta. >> all right, karl, here is the email which crossroads grass roots is mentioned and which chairman issa just mentioned dated june 1st, 2011. three mentions of lois lerner in it. what do you think? >> well, it shows that crossroads g.p.s., like a number of other conservative 501 c 4s was undergoing special scrutiny by lois lerner. as we know a handful of liberal groups were given such scrutiny. hundreds of conservative groups were given that scrutiny. it showed the imbalance that they were targeting conservative groups, right-of-center groups. and the document in question, the application was later leaked to the press. not leaked, it was given to the press by the irs, which is
ms. lerner, why did you want to personally order that they pull crossroads g.p.s., karl rove's organization's application? >> on the advice of my counsel, i respectfully exercise my fifth amendment right and decline to answer that question. >> and karl rove joins us. nice to see you, karl. >> great to see you, greta. >> all right, karl, here is the email which crossroads grass roots is mentioned and which chairman issa just mentioned dated june 1st, 2011. three mentions...
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. >> ms. lerner, you're released. >> congresswoman harmon, you were in congress for 17 years, and we can see the picture there. how common is that where you see the chairman sweeping his finger across his throat and cutting off the microphone, and did he deserve the reprimand that democrats unsuccessfully called for? >> i have never seen that, and yes he did deserve the reprimand, and yes, he did apologize. yes, there are a lot of issues about what the irs did or didn't do to conserves and others, as well. elijah cummings had his right, the 15 minutes or whatever the time limits are to ask his questions, and she should have been able to ask them. hopefully now calmer heads will prevail and the next chapter should showcase what the house can do in terms of a thoughtful investigation. the house has had a history, not recently, of investigating major issues in this country. let's just hope that sanity can prevail. >> i'm not sure we all hope that sanity prevails. the obama administration has prov
. >> ms. lerner, you're released. >> congresswoman harmon, you were in congress for 17 years, and we can see the picture there. how common is that where you see the chairman sweeping his finger across his throat and cutting off the microphone, and did he deserve the reprimand that democrats unsuccessfully called for? >> i have never seen that, and yes he did deserve the reprimand, and yes, he did apologize. yes, there are a lot of issues about what the irs did or didn't do to...